Those videos have to be the greatest thing I have ever seen "combating" Islamofacism. Unfortunately, the only people who will actually see this and comprehend it are you, me, facist, dimmick and possibly orbord.

Top name muhammed in England, French riots and Muslim laws against a national police force. I hope this also proves a point about why I am against the liberal mentallity of Europe which is slowly becoming like a disease in America.

Muhammed is not the top newborn's name in Europe. I don't have time to watch a bunch of propaganda on Youtube right now, but getting that first statistic so blazingly wrong in the first minute does not bode well.

Second of all, what are you talking about? Post the links you're referring to; don't talk about something off in another thread with no reference for us mere mortals to figure out what you're referring to.

He is talking about the last post on this page of my old topic, Bahra's post.

Mohmammed may not be number one, no, but is is climbing as that article you posted clearly states, and that can't be ignored. It is a name that wouldn't have even showed up in the top 100 names in england only 20-30 years ago.

And I'm sure not all of it is propaganda. If you would have bothered to watch that special on CNN a few weeks ago that I posted you may have realized that. Other people are finally beginning to recognize the problem, Orbode, and I know you aren't dumb. I just don't want to see you turn a blind eye to a ruthless, tricky enemy who hides beneath religious rights and poses a threat to the western ideal of democracy and liberty. Now you and everyone else pitches in and calls me a racist, a biggot, and an Islamophobe. Go ahead. It doesn't phase me at all. All you have to do, Orbode, is think outside the pre-implanted box of political correctness that the US education system has imprinted on you and you will know that it is true what I have said. Just try and break that boundary, Orbode, your eyes open much wider once you see that behind the utopian multi-cultural ideals planted into you by our schools, the truth about not only islam but many other things will be visible to you.

Just think outside of the "everybody is a great person!" kindergarten mentality, and then you will begin to understand. I know it's not your fault, it is how our education and country is raising children to be. We are raising a country of naivety.

Some of the video's excerpts are directly from the CNN special shown awhile back.

In my opinion though, it is not so much the schools as it is the media that effects the mentality of the country, at least those who watch the news.

FACISTFOOL-you make a good point about the muslims. I mean when you said they hide behind their religion. If it was one country doing this, there would be all out war on them already. Yet, because every time they attack us they recoil back to the "you are racist and intolerable of the muslim religion" card, the media plays it off as sympathy and America is the bad guy. Just the other day, and NBC "journalist" called the American troops mercenaries!

ok there is no possible way in any hell that you could be debating over a name that seems to be muslim. Obviously your one of those hardcore conservatives that must also be a bible thumping christian. Honestly if you believe taht islam is such a horrible religion you have some psycological problems. You've been brain washed by propaganda, a radical president spreading lies to the American president and breaking laws to do whatever the hell he pleases.

And obviously you are one of those hardcore liberals that just spew bs out of your mouth. And if you believe all we are debating about on this topic is a name, you are sadly psycotic. Besides, because facist and myself are part of a small majority, is it not you and the blind masses that have been brainwashed?

1-most of the propaganda, i.e. bands, movies and media, are generated by liberals. What brain washing propaganda are you talking about, the one conservative news channel on TV?

2- What lies has the President told the people?

3- What laws has he broken? Sending troopss in...oh wait... he is the COMMANDER AND CHIEF OF THE ARMED FORCES!

Saying I have been brainwashed when everything you just said yourself are lies generated by the liberal media is just idiotic. Are you upset that we hurt a muslim's feeling or better yet, that America is hurting the nice, kind muslims?

People like you want all the world to be equal and caring, but that will never happen. You act like America is an imperialistic empire led by a conservative dictator. Most of the time though, a dictatorship is not formed by conservative wars, but by liberal "equality." For example, the complete undoing of religion in the USSR. If some one is too fast, should we put weights on them? If some one is to smart, should we stop teaching them? You, like many others, see the world through rose colored glasses as a utopia. Any problems you see you claim to be illegal when in fact it is just "different."

Perhaps this will apease you:

"Young conservatives have no heart, but old liberals have no brains."

Hey patriot that was one of the most interesting quotes I have ever seen. Where did you get that from? Granted that it was pretty funny when you smashed the other person's arguement.

Are you seriously saying that cultural diversity leads directly to terrorism and death? Muslims are moving away from a violent Middle East. Big deal. This conservative xenophobia is certainly one of the more despairing things in the world today.

And:
3- What laws has he broken? Sending troopss in...oh wait... he is the COMMANDER AND CHIEF OF THE ARMED FORCES!

...in times of war.

Aren't we in war right now?

Yes now that Bush has forced it.

Interesting that you say that it was Bush forced the war. I could think of why he wanted to go to war, but did he force in such a manner that would uncivilized of a president? I'm just curious what you meant by that he forced the war thats all. But lets keep this on topic of the radical Islamic religious front that terrorizes all Americans.

I was incorrect in agreeing. We are not in at war right now. It was never declared because there is no one against whom we may declare it.

Go read the Constitution again (Article II, Section 2, Paragraph 1, if you need specifics): he's always commander of the armed forces regardless of whether or not we are in a state of declared war.

The political fallout from the Vietnam War resulted in legislation that requires presidents to notify Congress about the introduction of soldiers into harm's way (the War Powers Act - you should probably read that, too) to prevent undeclared wars initiated solely at the president's discretion, but that does not mean that he is not commander in chief, as even with that law he still has the authority to issue orders to our armed forces. (Not that that could really affect your argument though, because if you'll recall, Congress authorized President Bush to use military force against Iraq.)

Sounds alright to me as far as Constitutionality goes. Though we must remember we are not at war.

Considering I am muslim I hate to tell you guys but Islam is not a radical religion every religion has those certain few who want to go off and be violent. Those idiots who pray to god one second and blow themselves up the next are not true muslims Islam preachers fairness and respect for all religions. Only one person can declare a Jihad and that is god or Allah in Arabic so Bin Ladin as much of an idiot as he is is just trying to take out his hatred towards other by saying god is telling him to do it. Now to pose a question ? Doesn't Bush do the same thing ? Not in the same words but same format. So think about the propaganda you see is not true we are peaceful people the majority of us and then there are those who chose to be different and follow their own rules. We have a set rules like the christian ten commandments we have our five pillars which are guidelines for us to follow. So before you judge a group based on the information you see on tv think back to the crusades should we judge the christians and say they are killers and theives because of what they did ?

Right.

Which is why as of September of this year, 46% of people in Pakistan (which, as that article is kind enough to point out, is the only Muslim nation that has nuclear weapons) approve of Osama bin Laden.

I mean, don't get me wrong - I am rather grateful to those Muslims who are against extremism and misguided terrorism. However, I don't buy the idea that it really is just a tiny minority of Muslims who are extremist outcasts from the rest of Muslim society.

At the same time you have to look the fact that it's a percentage of Pakistani's (sp?) not Muslims. I understand that Pakistan is a mostly Muslim nation, but it is not THE Muslim nation. It does not represent Islam. Also, you'll notice that Bin Laden's influence is majorly focused in that region. While I am not going to claim that more western Muslim countries are not swayed by him, I would imagine that his influence would greatly decrease as you move farther west.

One might claim that you can see the same amount of hatred in the Middle East, but you would have to realize that they hate Christians because they have been invading for hundreds of years. The Middle East's hatred of Christianity is something separate from that of Bin Laden's; it has been present for centuries.

Edit: I won't try to claim it is only a tiny minority of Muslims who are extremists, but you'll notice it shifts from region to region. Islam in itself is not dangerous. Often, as in most hatemongering, the people themselves do not have an initial hatred for Westerners. Or rather, they do not have one to such a degree that they go through the trouble of striking out at us thousands of miles away. Usually, Islamic leaders who either have twisted minds or simply want to further their own agendas use Islam as a means to reach the people's hearts and bend them to their will. This is not unlike Hitler's preaching against Jews or the Bush administration's preaching against terrorists, which was a not-so-subtle attempt to rally against Muslims.

This is true. Unfortunately, the extremists deserve our attention. I, for one, am terrified for this nation's future. A bit cliche, but we are repeating the mistakes that the Germans made with the Nazi's. If we do not pay close attention to the extremists, then soon we will have chaos and destruction (if not genocide) on our hands. We must stay the course. No one likes war and death. But, unfortunately, it is a harsh reality of life. We must protect our country and her future.

Let me rephrase myself. Not "deserve;" rather, DEMAND. As for the fact that Islam not being dangerous in itself, I wasn't completely clear. Islam is not a bad thing [/B]in itself[B], but we must remember that we're not talking the whole "Christians vs. Muslims" debate. We are talking America vs. Threats that JUST SO HAPPEN TO BE MUSLIM. Just because America is comprised of primarily Christians doesn't mean that all Americans hate all Muslims. There's a little thing called "separation of church and state." We have it. They don't.

We already have them (genocides) in Africa, which we are dangerously close to completely ignoring. Sending the occasional care package to a country only to be captured by local warlords is not aid. Also, with the lack of a stable central power in Iraq, we are risking a genocidal situation between the religious factions. Not that I'm saying Saddam was exactly a great guy.

Iraq really wasn't any kind of immediate threat to our safety; we could easily have addressed more urgent issues.

This is actually highly arguable. We claim to have separation of church and state, but we often explicitly apply "good Christian morales" to our laws and decrees. Such as many, many politicians arguing against gay marriage because the Bible commands not to lay with a man as he would a woman. Religion is very much so intertwined in the politics of our country; we justifiably claim otherwise.

Basically the furthest we have gotten in this separation is that we do not outright outlaw religion, nor do we have a state religion. One may also look at things such as the "blue laws" in Massachussetts.


I guess this all sounded rather argumentative, but I'm not trying to attack your opinion. I am just trying to address various issues.

I wasn't specific enough. That's what I meant... (oh well...)

As for the being argumentative, I enjoy hearing all opinions and enjoy a good argument - - - no need for justification there. Why would I be here if I didn't want my opinions to be ripped apart? (That's how you learn ;) )

Once again, I'd have to agree; however, we are at least one-up on Iraq (okay, two or three... plus) At least I won't be killed in America for following a faith that differs from my family. I would say that that we've gotten pretty "far."

I suppose "far" is pretty damned relative then. You can really either look at it the Washington or DuBois way, namely "Look how far we've gotten!" or "We have so far to go..." respectively.

touché

Oh yea and I mistook your chaos and destruction statement because we were talking about Islamic terrorists and stereotypes about Islam, then you mentioned that. Then again, I have nothing against talking about the genocides in even the most inappropriate times because there really is no inappropriate time for something like that. In comparison, anything else is inappropriate to discuss if it does not involve finding a solution to thousands of humans being slaughtered.

It either is or it isn't... I'd appreciate it it you wouldn't blame your misinterpretations on my being "inappropriate," and then become passive and state that I wasn't, in fact, inappropriate at all.

Needless to say, I agreed with the 2nd part of your reply... ("there really is not inappropriate time for something like that.")

You know I thought about editing what I said because I wondered if you would think I was saying your mention of it was inappropriate, but I suppose I grew lazy. I didn't mean at all that what you said was inappropriate. It was very appropriate, it's just that what you (and the rest of us) were saying caused my own path of thinking to go nowhere near genocide, and so it simply seemed off-topic to me. I'm not saying it was off-topic, I simply misinterpreted, as you said. I was more or less stating a paradox, intending to reveal that discussion of genocide is never inappropriate. It's my own fault for poor writing, though.

Edit:

I suppose that was somewhat misinterpretation on your part, but only due to unclear writing. I was said that because what I had been trying to say is that I had initially thought the statement was a little off topic, but I wanted to point out that even if it was off-topic, I would not mind. Once I began the sentence "Then again..." I was talking in general; I was not talking about you.

100% agreed about the paradox (DID get it by the way, if you could see through my female ranting about my "appropriate-ness." - - - Damn computers, they take all the emotion out, leaving everything up for interpretation....)

Anyways... that's all I had to say... I'll stop wasting space going off on tangents

Well it is better to express the interpretation when you have a problem with it. I strongly believe that the root of 99% of strife is based on misunderstanding, though people do not realize it, hence it being misunderstanding.

This is my last post unless it's back on topic. We kind of went way off topic like you were saying.

NOTE TO ALL: kind of ironic, as all we were debating about was whether or not I was on topic.... okay, seriously done now (as you all roll your eyes).

Because this is closer to being on topic, I am posting again. I did not think you were referring to what is occurring in Africa right now because you said "soon we will have." Also, I assumed by extremists you meant Islam extremist hatred towards Christianity/the West. I was a little too <insert word here (can't think of the right one)> to realize that you only said "extremists." You never specifically targeted anyone beyond that in that sentence. I really am not sure why I thought it was off topic, though. I think my confusion just confused me further.

Regarding your earlier statements...

Although seemingly contradictory, that had nothing to DO with Muslims. You are falling into the trap that they want us to fall into. We have no problem with Muslims. Just because Bush is a Christian and we are a primarily Christian country doesn't mean that Americans hate Muslims and we want to "rally" against them. We would rally against ANY people had THEY blown up a vast number of our citizens. But no, this single group of people plays the religion card, knowing that a great number of American bleeding hearts will back them up. Our country's greatest asset (our freedom) is also our greatest weakness, and the Muslim nations KNOW that. We refer to them as "Muslim" nations not because we are Christian, but because they are "Muslim nations" by law. Their government IS run by their religion.