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Saudi Kidnap, Rape Victim Faces Lashing for 'Crime' of Being Alone With Man Not Related to Her

A 19-year-old Saudi woman who was kidnapped, beaten and gang raped by seven men who then took photos of their victim and threatened to kill her, was sentenced under the country's Islamic-based law to 90 lashes for the "crime" of being alone with a man not related to her.

'Nuff said.

An example par excellence of why Sharia Islamic law is broken. If we didn't need their oil and cooperation, then I'd be in favor of much harsher measures - as it is, the most we can do is condemn the judgment and urge them to not carry out such a ridiculous punishment.

They never fail to disappoint.

Muslims make a case by themselves, against themselves. I hope they enjoy all the "freedom." As dimmick said, if they were not so important to us economically, no one would put up with them.

Except Politically-Corectists, who will have you believe that that is their "culture" and that we need to "respect it."

Sure that's their "culture," but there is no way I can respect something like that.
Unfortunately, most people tie these laws and regulations directly to Islam, including Muslims.
Solely in my opinion, Islamic culture and beliefs have been construed to fit to the needs of those in power, just like any other religion.
I'm not saying this happens in all cases. However, every religion has things like this happen, if not in this specific way.
Sorry if thats a little fuzzy on making sense...it's late.

No, I agree with you. Every religion has its crazies and fundamentalists who bend people to their own will (even in Christianity - Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, etc.), but I think it's safe to say that ultra-fundamentalist Islam has an even stronger hold than that of most other major religions.

While I agree with you that Islam has the most fundamental branches at this point, we have to stop looking at it as a muslim problem and start seeing what we can do about it and what role we have in causing it. People do not become suicidal maniacs for no reason...notice how no muslims growing up in affluent US neighborhoods fly off to Afghanistan or Iraq and join the jihad against America. These are people who are disenfranchised by governments that oppress them and are nothing but puppets for the US government. If we want to decrease the number of these extremists, we need to stop supporting oppressive, hypocritical dictatorships in the middle east and elsewhere solely because they supply us with oil. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Jordan are all examples of this. It seems as if just because a country supplies the US with oil and makes peace with Israel then it is suddenly a "free" country worthy of our support. Finally, we must solve the Israel-Palestine issue. Until this happens America will be viewed as the oppressor, because it does indeed have a hand in the misery in many of these peoples lives.

A few things: one, Jordan and Egypt are not fundamentalist dictatorships. Saudi Arabia is certainly no liberal paradise, but they're making progress (much of which is due to American pressure). Pakistan is a problem, but with them, we don't have much of a choice.

Here's the one word you need to keep in mind when considering the Middle East: realpolitik. Yes, we should be promoting freedom and liberty as often as we can, but we also NEED oil. Like it or not, our economy is dependent on it, and we WILL make compromises to get it because when push comes to shove, the Saudis are sitting on the oil and we are just customers. Similarly, we need Pakistani airspace and cooperation in keeping the Taliban from seizing back control in Afghanistan, because there's no other way to get to that country (because we're sure as hell not going through Iran).

Another thing: you're wrong about where terrorists come from (oh, and yes, people do go from America to join the jihad, but that's beside the point). Many terrorists are highly educated men from middle and upper classes who are brainwashed by radical Islamists into doing horrible things. Heck, nearly all of the 9/11 hijackers were educated Saudis, and that government is on good terms with us - these are not beggars and vagrants drafted from the streets of Riyadh. What they want is a radical form of Islam imposed as a form of government, which would be more oppressive than anything they have now - pulling our support from these countries would only increase the likelihood that they would fall to extremist factions.

The best way to decrease the numbers of terrorists is to prevent radical Islam from infecting their minds - that is, shut down the radical schools that openly advocate violence and teach that martyrs get 72 virgins when they get to heaven. These people need a real education; Islam can certainly be a part of that, but it CANNOT be from the radical sects.

You are wrong about both Jordan and Egypt...both countries are infamous, like just about every other arab dictaroship, for jailing political opponents and controlling the media. The saudis government is run by a royal family that practices none of what they impose. While they dont allow women to drive in their country, they all lead playboy lifestyles and commit all sorts of things muslims regard as sin. The only reason these people are in power is because of the US. And as much as you want to believe that these people are raised with a hatred for America there is a reason for that. It has nothing to do with the fact that americans are "infidels". So are the inhabitants of Switzerland, but unlike America, they aren't notorious for their foreign policy. Until we play the Israel-Palestine conflict even-handedly this situation will only worsen.

ACtually, the Muslim situation in Europe, particularly france, is ALOT worse that here in the US, primarily because there are more of them. They don't look at country lines. They see the west as a bastion of all they consider evil. While the hatred may have began from foreign policy mistakes, they have morphed into hatred of the Christian infidel.

And I think we do play the Israeli-Palestinian conflict fair. By your own logic in a prior post, Jews SHOULD get special treatment because of years of opression and anti-semitism in Europe. Right? :o Anyway, It's not hard to decide between bomb-weilding maniancs who wont compromise (mind you, Israel will, and has) and a people who turned a hunk of desert into a prosperous country.

No, actually, I'm right. Jordan and Egypt are hardly model democracies, but when compared to other governments in their region (not to mention their own history of the past few decades), they are much more acceptable, plus they're making progress in the right direction.

I never said that Saudi Arabia was perfect, or that was to be included on the list of countries in the Middle East that are "better" than others. I agree that there's much work to be done with them, but as it stands, they have the oil that we need, and there's not a whole lot we can do about that.

Also, you did not address my points on realpolitik or education, you just continued to heap blame on the United States, which will not hold up in the end. You want to blame America for our foreign policy in the Middle East - have you even thought about what that means? We use our influence to intervene in countries on behalf of democratic ideals (and don't talk about how the creation of Israel was not democratic because it displaced Palestinians - whatever the morality of that, it is in the past and there is no way to alter it, so focus on the CURRENT state of affairs). Israel is a liberal democracy that is home to many people of Arab descent and has shown that it will compromise in the past, but radical Palestinian organizations have repeatedly stated that the only acceptable goal for them is elimination of Israel as a state. Sorry, that's not going to happen. The United States is fully justified in supporting Israel.

On behalf of democratic ideals? You know thats a bunch of bs. This has nothing to do with freedom or whats right. Its all about national interest. If a country supports our war on terror...they become our ally, regardless of how free or democratic they are. And the governments of Jordan and Egypt are no different than any other in the region except for maybe the former Iraqi government and Iran. All the secular dictatorships in the middle east are run by the same breed of power hungry maniacs who aren't afraid to kill their own people and jail any dissenters if it means they can maintain their power. The only difference between the eyptian and jordanian government to that of say, Syria is that Egypt and Jordan support the US's actions and Syria does not. They are all the same in their oppression and corruption.

Alright..now to address the Palestine-Israel issue...So you are saying that the jews should get special treatment from the US because Hitler mis treated them? While on a much lesser scale, the Palestinians are being oppressed today which is rather ironic seeing how if anyone should know better than to oppress another group of people it would be the jews. The palestinians arent the ones who oppressed and killed the jews...therefore they shouldnt be punished for it. With your logic, Germany should be giving a big chunk of their land for a Jewish state.

How do you propose that the Israelis are in any way opressing the palestinians?

Renegade:
Do you even know about what we are talking about? Like facist Fool said, by your own logic we should help the muslim world, yet then we must help the rest of the world and thus Israel...BUT WAIT...that would make the Muslim world upset so we may have to stop helping Israel...BUT WAIT...then other democracies will be upset with us so well have to help them...BUT WAIT...once again it would make the musli world unhappy. Those rose colored glasses liberals wear have gotten a little foggy.

PS-dimmick is right about egypt and jordan.

Well, you're mostly wrong, but I'm not going to go into too much detail. I'm going to restate what I said earlier - realpolitik. If we need something, we do what is necessary to obtain it; if that means we have to have relations with nations that don't quite line up with our beliefs, then that's what has to happen. It sucks, but there's a brutally simple equation at work: the Middle East has oil, and we need oil. Hence, we buy it from them because we cannot produce enough of it ourselves.

And for the last time, please do some research on Jordan and Egypt - I'm tired of reiterating the same point over and over. Those two countries are ahead of most of their neighbors in the way of democracy, and are also moving in the right direction; what more do you want? I say that since they are the ones that have shown that they're willing to work with us and make moves toward democracy, we should be willing to work with them and help them out. If you want us to ONLY interact with existing liberal democracies in the Middle East, then our choice is Israel, and judging from your views on that, I highly doubt you'd agree.

Also, regarding Israel: I don't think they should have special treatment because of their treatment at the hands of the Nazis. The fact is, they are a democratic nation that is recognized by every other nation in the world (save perhaps the Arab world); to try and deny that is foolish. While I'm not sure I'm totally in agreement with how the nation was founded, that's sixty years in the past, and nothing anyone says or does can change that now. As it is, the only reasonable thing to do is analyze the situation as it currently stands.

Here's what's up: when the Israelis got their land, there was plenty of space left for the Palestinians. The Arab world tried multiple times to destroy them, but Israel managed to defeat them quite handily several times over in spite of being highly outnumbered, and then proceeded to take much of the territory adjoining what were at that time their borders. The Palestinians - an Arab people - were not welcomed into any other Arab countries (for various reasons, and I can't really blame the other Arab nations), and thus forced to live in camps.

If the story ended here, then I'd have much more sympathy. The problem is that groups like Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad have not allowed it to end there; rather, they think that by lobbing a few rockets over the border or rocketing a checkpoint or two, they'll be able to force Israel to leave. They won't accept anything less than the dissolution of Israel, and since that is not even close to being the realm of political possibility, they are stuck with an impossible goal that they refuse to acknowledge as such. Yes, I do think that Israel needs to be more open to compromise - a two-state solution should be offered at every opportunity. At the same time, Israel is doing much MUCH better than the Palestinian groups at being open to compromise. The terrorists need to realize that their piecemeal efforts cannot possibly win, and that the only way they can achieve any kind of stable existence for the people they are allegedly fighting for is to lay down their arms and come to the negotiating table in good faith.

This has always amused me about the "freedom fighters", etc. who wish to "drive out the infidels", especially in Iraq. Mostly they just kill Iraqis, and then claim that this will somehow save them from the Evil Occupier and Destroyer of Islam. I'm reminded of this quote from Lawrence of Arabia:

Hopefully eventually the Muslims will realize that they're mostly just hurting each other while the rest of the world continues to pass them by, and if they can't, it just inspires me to throw more tax money at alternatives to oil so that we can let them kill each other in peace.

Speaking of Hamas, I read this on Scott Adams' blog recently and found it amusing:
http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert...atches_car.html