So how's Iraq going? FacistFalangistFool refers in another thread to how the "liberal media" is only telling us the negatives in Iraq.

What's really going on there? As much as some people would like us to believe it is the case, it's not wine and roses over there. The monthly death toll in Iraq in October was one of the highest so far, and the violence shows few signs of ending soon.

So, realistically, how is the occupation of Iraq faring? Not too hot, I'd say. What can we do to fix it (unless you think nothing's wrong, in which case feel free to tell us why)?

I personally don't think withdrawal is a viable option; what else is there?

I do maintain - and always will, since I have personal correspondence with a soldier in Iraq saying as much - that the media either underreported or ignored quite a lot of the good things that were happening over there as far as rebuilding schools, repairing infrastructure, etc. for a long time after the invasion (and probably continuing today, although I don't have proof to back this up).

However, I think it would be foolish to say that everything is all wonderful at this point, what with the death tolls rising each month, Saddam's verdict looking to cause even more violence and major military newspapers calling for the resignation of Rumsfeld. I still don't believe we should abandon Iraq to its fate, but at the same time, we need to get right out of there as soon as it is feasible to do so and not one day later.

I agree with Dimmick. I never said that it was great over there, I just simply stated that many positive aspects are left out.

I too agree with dimmick, but also feel withdrawing now is not an option. The US is making progress as mentioned, but at the same time it is impossible to win a war when your fighting terrorists (no country, no laws, nothing). We should focus on just maintiaining any order possible and speed up the training process for the Iraqi soldiers. Once they can stand on their own two feet, we pull out.

I’m curious does anyone here really think pulling out would be an option? Its ironic how history repeats itself; take the Afghanistan or Vietnam campaigns what good would pulling out do? History shows us what happens when we pull out early and it honestly makes me sick hearing people talk about how we should pull out, forget about whether we should be there in the first place we’re there now and you can’t change that. You can only decide if you want the deaths of the countless soldiers to be in vain or not.

Nicely put.

Tell that to the Democrats.

<_<

Yeah. Idiots.

Though I disagree with it, the logic of "why are we spending bagillions of dollars a year propping up a government against increasing waves of insurgency and outright civil war?" does make some sense. The whole situation could have been handled better. In a lot of people's eyes, withdrawal at this point is simply accepting defeat and leaving instead of stringing it out a while.

Still, I don't think that withdrawal is a good idea. It certainly won't do anything for the Iraqis.

You guys are completely right! Why would the Democrats pull off such a fruitless act of withdrawing from from Iraq when they can take over all the profitable oil contracts that we went in there for in the first place.

The Rebublicans (although had bad information) made a horrible decision to go into Iraq. Even before the war Bin Laden had not killed upwards of 200,000 of his own people.

Maybe, even fi they dont withdraw, I would hope the Democrats realize that they need to do something usefull instead of "Staying the course" and goign the way of the rotary engine.

It depends on what you guys mean by doing a good job. I know a few people that are currently serving in iraq, and one of them is my best friends dad and my former scout leader. Acoording to them, it's not as bad as it looks like in the news. Keep in mind it's a hard war to fight. You don't know who the bad guys are until they actually atack, and some of the people that attack are just sheppards that were offered 10 buck to push this button on a cell phone when the americans came by. One of the people I know works in one of the hospitals. They're helping people that weren't even in the war. One time a family came in with a little girl who's tung was so swollen, it clogged gher whole throat so she had to breath through a hole in her neck. They saved her life, and that's just one of the thousands of people they help. There are alot of americans that die, but every single on of them know that they are helping people, and they don't think selfish thought about how many american people are dying. They think about how many human people they're saving.

TO andaroo-

first of all, who said we were their for oil. For a war supporter (I'm assuming) that's not a very positive mentallity. Second of all it was the republican controlled Congress and Republican president who declared war, although the democrats did support it.

1800-

Think about how many lives Muslims have taken. Yes, it is nice that we are helping the wounded in Iraq (non-American), but who's to say a "farmer with a cell phone won't ruin it." About a year ago, American soldiers were passing out toys toys to the Iraqi children when one of them, with a bomb strapped to himself, walked in the middle of the crowd and wounded and killed Americans and children. We are their to insure peace, not endanger Americans.

to both-

Whatever our motives may be, we've accomplished our goal. Although there are terrorist influences, the country is no longer run by a totalitarian Muslim with terrorist armies. We've done our part, and when the Iraqi army can stand on its own to feet we should pull out. The war on terrorism is a war that is never ending. With the newfound liberal controlled government, we should pull out because any time an American soldier tries to defend himself, he will be court marshalled and called racist by the peace loving liberals blind to the reality of the situation at hand WE ARE IN A WAR.

Are you pulling "facts" out of unmentionable locations again? I assume that you could find us an article detailing this tragic event if it happened.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA. It's amazing how you've done an about-face against "stay the course" since your favorite party got hammered in the elections. And what do you mean "we're done"? The country is a civil war in all but name! Ah, but we've "accomplished our mission", which was...what, again? Bring peace and stable government? Well, we aren't anywhere near that point.

It amuses me to no end that you're now in favor of giving up as soon as possible. Why, pray tell, is that? And assuming "court martials" are the only reason, would you mind citing some articles about these "unfair" court martials that you are so fixed on?

By the way, Saddam Hussein was not much of a Muslim ruler (though he was pretty totalitarian). He was actually one of the most secular leaders in the entire Middle East while he was in power. His supposed piety of late is probably entirely a show to try to get some sympathy among the public and the insurgents. I'm not trying to defend the guy, but when you get basic facts totally wrong, it doesn't lend much credence to your arguments. And the only "terrorist armies" in Iraq came AFTER Hussein was toppled; as of yet (unless I'm wrong in remembering that no one has actually brought any concrete evidence to light that Iraq had any sort of connection to terrorist organizations - if I'm wrong, feed me some links).

Convenient, that. I suppose we'll never be getting those civil liberties that we're "temporarily giving up to win the war" back, either?

Once again you have taken it upon yourself to blow what I've said way out of proportion. In my original post, I said the same thing: that we should stay in Iraq until it's national army can stand on its own two feet. On another note, the Middle Eastern muslims have been nothing but a civil war for the past hundreds of years. The fact that we are their now is only making it more well known. Secondly, I never mentioned anything about a group of unfair court martials. I was just making a point about liberal mentality(It's called sarcasm).

And to feed your insaciable appetite for cold hard facts:
Here's a little toy story I didn't pull from you know where.