Title: The REAL World Powers in 20-50 years.
Description: Who I BELIEVE it will be.
FacistFalangistFool - December 14, 2006 12:34 AM (GMT)
Currently, there is one super power: The United States. We have gained the world's envy and thus their hate, because they see us as a looming menace to their "independence" and world stability. However, the United States is nowhere near an "evil" power, and we are actually one of the most benevolent in history. Every other world power has gone one imperialistic purges or fought for terrirtorial expansion (For Example: The Roman Empire, Germany(WWI-II), The United Kingdom(1600's-1800's), Spain (15-1600's), etc.). The United States has never embarked on wars FOR THE PURPOSE OF GAINING LAND OR COLONIES. Did it end up that way, such as in the spanish-american war? Yes, but that is NOT what we entered that war for. We are one of the only world powers EVER who has not severely taken advantage of the fact that it is a world power except perhaps, in some cases, latin america. So the rest of the world's hate and Anti-Americanism simply springs from this fact: They have no other excuse to hate us except for being...well...us.
In a few years, however, or perhaps even right underneath our noses now, another "world power" is brewing. Not a world power in the sense of a country, no. A world power in the sense of a religion which controls multiple countries. What is more dangerous to you? The Muslim religion, wherever it meets its neigbors, has a definitive history of battling with them. They hate America because of our Liberal policies such as homosexuality, abortion, etc., our religion, and quite simply our way of life. America is not the only country under Islam's attack, however. In the Phillipines, Muslims constantly suicide bomb Filipino's for their own islands. In India, a frequent and bloody reminder of the Muslim presence in Pakistan by suicide bombers and wars. In Africa, Islamic militants have control of Somalia and wish to implant Shariaa law there. Why is it there is one common enemy here? Muslims do NOT want this multi-cultural-utopia stupidity wanted by post-christian western whites. They want to kill us. The sooner the western world realizes this, the better.
The reason why I say they will be a world power? Look in France and other European countries, where Muslims already have such a griphold. In a matter of fifty years or so, Europe will be majority Muslim, and thus will be muslim countries. And "Eurabia" will not be as friendly as Europe is to us. They are the most powerful, I hate to say, Religion on the planet. They have the will to get what they want done, and the Western world defeatists simply arent ready for it. We can try our hardest for "co-existance", but it helps when all parts WANT to co-exist. World powers have a major influence in other country's politics:
Look at how easily they can sway Spain's elections with one terrorist attack. Hell, look at how OUR politics changed after 911. The Islamic religion is our competing world power, but we are fighting no cold war. We are fighting a Culture War, and sadly, if it keeps up the way it is, we will lose. What kind of culture does America have? Blame America first, ask questions later; doubting religion; "multi-culturalism". While as muslims have a very straightforward culture with a very straightforward agenda: one that is against everything the west has fought for so long to protect.
Orborde - December 14, 2006 02:39 AM (GMT)
I don't think we have much to fear from Muslim extremism except random insanity and mayhem. I'd worry about China (or maybe India), personally; have you looked at the trade deficit between China and the US lately? It may not be as sexy as ranting about Muslim extremists (who really spend most of their time quibbling amongst themselves, though we only tend to see their attacks against us), but the fact that PRETTY MUCH ALL U.S. INDUSTRY IS MOVING OVERSEAS (to countries (China) that have barely any concept of human rights to boot) worries me a lot more than the prospect of a terrorist attack. A terrorist (using anything short of a nuclear bomb, really) causes only momentary fear, disorder, and property damage; the effects of our economy being at the mercy of pretty shady foreign powers are longer lasting and much more harmful in the long term.
invisiblegeek - December 15, 2006 03:03 AM (GMT)
yes I would have to agree with Oborde.
China owns more of the U.S. then the U.S. does in bonds that is....haha
If anyone has a good chance of becoming the next "super power" it is China. I actually think we will drop to the 3rd slot with Britain and China leading us.
dimmick - December 15, 2006 05:20 AM (GMT)
And how do you see Britain coming up from its current position to "lead" us?
FacistFalangistFool - December 16, 2006 05:53 PM (GMT)
I'm not only talking about islamic extremists. The religion as a whole and its culture is much more powerful and capable than our own because our own culture is bent on sefl-degrading. Look how many bands and actors are anti-american, and for what? Islam is going to be the most powerful religion in a few years and the countries it has hold of will become religion-run, just like every other islamic country minus Turkey. Even China has its own problems with muslims. Trade deficit is not the issue. Culture deficit is.
Patriot76 - December 16, 2006 10:10 PM (GMT)
The one fact that you are all overlooking is the several divisions in the islamic religion. With the sunnis, shiites, and not to mention the hindu religions that are the islamic countries neighbor (india), there will never be a "union" to allow the islamic countries to grow. The word islam is practically synonymous with civil war.
In parts of Europe and in the Middle East, it is true that the laws are bending to the muslim culture, but America is a different story.
As for the world power in fifty years: The United States of America.
I don't see how Britain is even a choice. China is a rising power, but with divisions of industry and farmers (much like 1850's America), they won't get it together. Although I do believe the rest of the world combined is in about a one trillion dollar debt to China. India is similar to China in that America depends on those two for off-shoring jobs. Still, I believe in fifty years, we will become more self dependent. American technology and research is the best in the world now. We will probably be the first to develope alternatiove fuel and resources. It may seem like we are on a bit of a downward slope now but in fifty years, no one will be close to us.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - December 17, 2006 02:18 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Dec 14 2006, 12:34 AM) |
"We have gained the world's envy and thus their hate, because they see us as a looming menace to their "independence" and world stability."
"The United States has never embarked on wars FOR THE PURPOSE OF GAINING LAND OR COLONIES."
"We are one of the only world powers EVER who has not severely taken advantage of the fact that it is a world power except perhaps, in some cases, latin america. So the rest of the world's hate and Anti-Americanism simply springs from this fact: They have no other excuse to hate us except for being...well...us."
"A world power in the sense of a religion which controls multiple countries. What is more dangerous to you?"
"The Muslim religion, wherever it meets its neigbors, has a definitive history of battling with them."
"They want to kill us. The sooner the western world realizes this, the better." |
First off since when does the world envy us, that’s pretty cocky on your part. Second you forgot to mention that president Polk forced a showdown with Mexico in order to acquire California under such reasons as unpaid claims. He placed American troops around the Rio Grande, which resulted in the death of 16 American lives. In the end America, did win and did acquire what we sought out to acquire. There are a lot more events too in which America pulled something like this, such as acquisition of Hawaii, we forced a revolt when they wouldn’t be assimilated by us. It just goes to show that we aren't perfect and you shouldn't make us out to be because then we look really arrogant.
You said that we were one of the world powers EVER to not have severely taken advantage of the fact that it is a world power except in some cases, Latin America.....well isn't that basically an opinion and by saying EVER and then making an exception don’t you contradict yourself?
If it is true that a religion can control multiple countries, what guarantee is there that all of those countries will get along simply due to similarities in religion. Times are drastically different and most countries wouldn’t align with another one simply due to religion and besides who says all Muslim countries like each other, there seem to be numerous acts of aggression which involve Muslim countries and are going on right now such as those that occur within Israel and Palestine and even Iraq
You shouldn't base the fact that a country being a certain religion affiliates them with a certain history of battles. If you looked back enough you could see similar trends with all countries at one point and time, such as France during Napoleons’'s time, or Germany and its affiliation with both world wars.
I highly doubt that every Muslim wants to kill us, what about all the ones in Tebet, they do make up the majority of the Muslim religion, and bringing a statement to that level is not only radical but ignorant; sorry if it seems that I've been really rough on you and your views but you need to know ALL of your facts and not just hope no one else sees the flaws in your views. LOL also you shouldn't use the Muslims as scape goats its pretty much what Hitler did to the jews...unless that is what you set out to do then by all means .....
FacistFalangistFool - December 18, 2006 01:34 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Second you forgot to mention that president Polk forced a showdown with Mexico in order to acquire California under such reasons as unpaid claims. He placed American troops around the Rio Grande, which resulted in the death of 16 American lives. In the end America, did win and did acquire what we sought out to acquire. |
Polk's administration was way before we could be considered a world power. I was talking more generally about post-WWII America.
| QUOTE |
| There are a lot more events too in which America pulled something like this, such as acquisition of Hawaii, we forced a revolt when they wouldn’t be assimilated by us. |
The U.S. government under Cleveland OPPOSED this action, and actually sent an investigation feeling that Queen Liliuokalani was wrongfully deposed. The revolt was started by rebel American farmers, not the American government.
| QUOTE |
| If it is true that a religion can control multiple countries, what guarantee is there that all of those countries will get along simply due to similarities in religion. |
You are right: most muslim countries generally don't get along. But who is to say that they won't in the future? And all muslims do share one characteristic-their hate of the West and our culture.
Look at how many muslims protested the Pope's visit to Turkey. One of the most secular muslim nations on the planet.
| QUOTE |
| You shouldn't base the fact that a country being a certain religion affiliates them with a certain history of battles. If you looked back enough you could see similar trends with all countries at one point and time, such as France during Napoleons’'s time, or Germany and its affiliation with both world wars. |
France and Germany during these time periods did not fight religious wars. They fought wars of Expansion and Nationalism (which doesnt exist anymore except in the muslim world.) Islam is battling ALL its neigbors: Russia (Chechnya), China,
The Philippines, Africa. All in the name of religion. And it has since the 1800's. In case you weren't too educated in the matter, in the late 19th century/early twentieth century Islamic militants kidnapped a French/American Citizen in Algeria, and held him for ransom. The difference? Theodore Roosevelt wasn't afraid to use whatever means necessary to get him back.
FacistFalangistFool - December 18, 2006 01:52 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| I highly doubt that every Muslim wants to kill us, what about all the ones in Tebet, they do make up the majority of the Muslim religion, and bringing a statement to that level is not only radical but ignorant; |
Percentages of Muslims who feel killings of civilians is justified sometimes/often by country (%):
Jordan: 57
Lebanon: 73
Pakistan: 41
Indonesia: 21
Turkey: 15 (The most western of the Muslim nations still has a 15% for this?)
Morocco: 40
Muslim views of other religions (Percentages):
Christians: Turkey---Unfavored by 63%, Morocco----Unfavored by 63%
Jews: Jordan---Unfavored 100%, Morocco----88%, Lebanon----99%, Pakistan-74%
Compare this to the US, whose public unfavors muslims a mere 22%.
Not all Nazi's wanted to kill jews during WWII either; very few ever laid a hand on a jew. Does that make them protected under freedom of speech/religion, even though they endorsed it and/or turned the other cheek? Does that make the actions of the ones they endorse any less significant? Doesn't that make them guilty as well?
Source for all this grand info.
Orborde - December 20, 2006 12:28 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Percentages of Muslims who feel killings of civilians is justified sometimes/often by country (%): |
So do you feel that killing civilians is ever justified, Mr. Righteous?
FacistFalangistFool - December 20, 2006 01:27 AM (GMT)
Obviously not, Mr. Orbode. If I did, would I be using it as an example? Do you condone the killing of civilians? I never said I wanted to kill all the muslims now, did I? I want to acknowledge how much of a cultural and devotion to their country(religion) they have than us.
Patriot76 - December 21, 2006 09:39 PM (GMT)
It does seem like facistfool has a point with the whole culture devotion thing. It is mostly out of the strict fear and strictness of the Islam religion that makesw their culture higher and how could you argue with all those facts. Still, the Muslim culture may be effecting Europe, but as of now, not so much America.
andarooo - December 22, 2006 09:00 PM (GMT)
China seems like the easiest to be considered a major world power in 20-50 years, but I think that they will be consedered one much earlier. I don't think it is because they are going to own most of the United States... If the case was who owns most of the U.S. the United States would not be a world power today. While the Muslims and China is buying our bonds and land we seem to be buying cheap labor and plastic toys.
The interesting thing is that I would only consider us a world power after the two world wars when people were buying the bombs we were dropping :unsure:
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - December 23, 2006 05:33 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Dec 18 2006, 01:34 AM) |
"Polk's administration was way before we could be considered a world power. I was talking more generally about post-WWII America."
"The U.S. government under Cleveland OPPOSED this action, and actually sent an investigation feeling that Queen Liliuokalani was wrongfully deposed. The revolt was started by rebel American farmers, not the American government."
"You are right: most muslim countries generally don't get along. But who is to say that they won't in the future? And all muslims do share one characteristic-their hate of the West and our culture. Look at how many muslims protested the Pope's visit to Turkey. One of the most secular muslim nations on the planet."
"France and Germany during these time periods did not fight religious wars. They fought wars of Expansion and Nationalism (which doesnt exist anymore except in the muslim world.) Islam is battling ALL its neigbors: Russia (Chechnya), China, The Philippines, Africa. All in the name of religion. And it has since the 1800's. In case you weren't too educated in the matter, in the late 19th century/early twentieth century Islamic militants kidnapped a French/American Citizen in Algeria, and held him for ransom. The difference? Theodore Roosevelt wasn't afraid to use whatever means necessary to get him back." |
If you did mean that then why did you say "The United States has never embarked on wars FOR THE PURPOSE OF GAINING LAND OR COLONIES."? Also if you did mean post-WWII world powers, it would be safe to assume that you would consider all other world powers to be post WWII, then if that is the case why bring in The Roman Empire, The United Kingdom(1600's-1800's), and Spain (15-1600's) into it seeing as the dates you gave were clearly not post-WWII. If you can go that far back with other world powers why not go that far back with the U.S.
Simply because Cleveland opposed this action doesn't necessarily mean that the whole U.S. government in which he presided over at the time did. Cleveland being president at the time and having the democratic majority assisting him had enough power to do this. But former president HARRISON, had no problem going along with the revolt. Also if the U.S. government had nothing to do with it then what purpose was there in sending troops in to assist it and openly too I might add. Luckily for the sake of anti-imperialism Harrison's term expired.
You shouldn't assume that simply because the president does not agree with the annexation of a foreign country, that past actions such as sending in troops ,which ultimately led to the exile the leader of that certain country, is considered un imperialistic. The more you try to hide America's past, which I for one have no problem with and in fact for the most part am proud off, the more you make us look bad. You should also choose your words more carefully because you seem to constantly be tripping over them.
I'd wager anything that all Muslims do not hate the West and our culture. Your lack of knowledge doesn't give you the right to turn your ignorance into anger. Truth be told there is an increase in the dislike of American's in the Middle East but that doesn't mean that all Muslims hate Americans.
No, see you misunderstood what I meant which was that nations have clashed with neighboring ones at one point and time it's in their nature to declare and keep dominance over rival nations; and if you look back far enough you`ll find evidence supporting this. I included France and Germany simply because they were not Muslim but possessed a habit for creating clashes. I never said anything about wars being fought for religion but rather meant that just because a nation is a Muslim doesn’t always associate it with a war like nature, which is possessed by many nations not just Muslim ones. It’s okay if you misunderstood though, no ones perfect. Also where did Theodore Roosevelt come in? I didn't even mention him.
dimmick - December 23, 2006 10:27 PM (GMT)
FacistFalangistFool - December 23, 2006 11:52 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| The more you try to hide America's past, which I for one have no problem with and in fact for the most part am proud off, the more you make us look bad. You should also choose your words more carefully because you seem to constantly be tripping over them. |
In no way am I hiding our past. I am proud of our country and all that we have done. I am simply stating that there was always that froce in America preventing us from being an all-out imperial power, and that will always be there.
| QUOTE |
| I'd wager anything that all Muslims do not hate the West and our culture. Your lack of knowledge doesn't give you the right to turn your ignorance into anger. Truth be told there is an increase in the dislike of American's in the Middle East but that doesn't mean that all Muslims hate Americans. |
Absolutely. Not all mustlims hate the west, but most do, as I just showed you with clear evidence from a pretty decent source. And the number is growing every day. The sooner we try and stop hiding behind this multi-cultural "no-race-can-be-wrong-besides-whites" facade, the sooner we will be fit to defend ourselves against Islam. I have a cousin who converted to Islam and is currently very extremist, and he LAUGHS at us. He laughs at the fact that our soldiers have to deal with MRE's but a muslim in gitmo gets ostrich meat because he sued because he got pork during Ramadan. He laughs that Islamists clearly state they want the united states and the west's downfall and we simply say "no, not all of them do." and yet we can see on the TV the sheer number of people in the street burning US flags. And FYI, I have done alot of research into this topic. I don't simply spew hatred for the hell of it.
| QUOTE |
No matter what I say to him to defend the US, nothing we do is right in his, or any other Muslim's, eyes is right. If you did mean that then why did you say "The United States has never embarked on wars FOR THE PURPOSE OF GAINING LAND OR COLONIES."? Also if you did mean post-WWII world powers, it would be safe to assume that you would consider all other world powers to be post WWII, then if that is the case why bring in The Roman Empire, The United Kingdom(1600's-1800's), and Spain (15-1600's) into it seeing as the dates you gave were clearly not post-WWII. If you can go that far back with other world powers why not go that far back with the U.S. |
I said ALL powers in general. The United States is simply Post-WWII because that is when we became a real World Power. All world powers come about at different times.
| QUOTE |
| I never said anything about wars being fought for religion but rather meant that just because a nation is a Muslim doesn’t always associate it with a war like nature, which is possessed by many nations not just Muslim ones. |
All violent countries are not violent, but alot of muslim coutries are inherently violent. Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya and Afghanistan all have a history of internal and external strife (usually muslim v. muslim currently). Turkey (which used to be the ottoman empire) once laid siege to easter Europe and set off on an expansion across all of Europe in the middle ages. They have simply been, how do you say, "tamed" by their defeats. Muslims in other countries use violence to be heard, as in the Philipines example I used, in Russia (Chechnya), in France ("Youth" Riots), and even here in the good ol' USA (911). What Islamic countries need is seperation if Church and state, and a BIG religous reformation where "kill the infidel" isn't in the Qu'ran.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - December 24, 2006 11:52 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Dec 23 2006, 11:52 PM) |
"but alot of muslim coutries are inherently violent."
"What Islamic countries need is seperation if Church and state, and a BIG religous reformation where "kill the infidel" isn't in the Qu'ran." |
Well that can be said about a lot of countries not just Muslim ones
Though I agree with you here, I highly doubt that would happen anytime soon. Besides what are the odds a whole religion would edit their bibles if that would mean also changing their beliefs, who has the right to change or force the change of how people belive, that itself would only spark violence. It seems religion itself leads to an interesting amount of unnecessary conflicts.
FacistFalangistFool - December 24, 2006 11:58 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Though I agree with you here, I highly doubt that would happen anytime soon. Besides what are the odds a whole religion would edit their bibles if that would mean also changing their beliefs. It seems religion itself leads to an interesting amount of unnecessary conflicts. |
Actually, Most wars in the 20th century and the most deaths were caused by Atheists. Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong...all caused the deaths of Millions of People, and none were because of religion and they were all atheists or VERY secular. The only people who currently start wars over their religion are muslims. I mean who kills someone because of a drawing of a religious figure! Do you know how many people spoof and make fun of jesus all the time, and you don't see christians getting ready to kill someone. That's the danger of the situation. But I'm glad we've come to terms on something.
Patriot76 - December 27, 2006 03:39 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Dec 24 2006, 11:58 PM) |
| Do you know how many people spoof and make fun of jesus all the time, and you don't see christians getting ready to kill someone. |
Forget religion for a second. President Bush gets made fun of and riticuled much more often than Jesus, and by our fellow Americans. Whichever way you take that, that is what makes our country great. The fact that we have freedom of speech and rights. The reason Muslims get so offended and Americans do not is because freedom of speech and democracy are not known in most of the midle east. The idea of speaking out against a religion or government figure is a fantasy to them.