Since we seem to be straying from the topics in our other posts, I made a continuations of an old one. Since most of us are online right now and since Nemo and Isa weren't here the first time I posted this topic, let's hear it. I would just like to know where you stand on the the political spectrum and on certain issues:

Let's start off with current events like abortion, the new Congress, the economy, or any thing else you've got.

Well right now I'll come out and say anything conservative is fine by me. Abortion: Pro-Life. New Congress: Lets see what they've got. The Economy: No Complaints. Iraq: Stay the course. Iran: Don't let em get nukes. UN: Leave. Anybody want to contradict me on anything?

i have liberal views on most issues
abortion-think it's okay at an early stage of the pregnancy-don't support that whole partial-birth abortion thing
new Congress-Democrats controlling the congress could help restrict bush, before he could just have something easily passed, now it won't be so easy- i think it's good to see some Democratic control over this country again

I'll agree, it's never a good thing to have a 1 party executive and legislative branch. I think this country needs some changes in 2008 if this country is to be on the right track again.

That's a good point though FacistFool: Isa and Nemo-how do you feel about the UN?

Do you realize abortion is killing a living organism that is NOT part of the mother's body? It's DNA is genetically different.

I could care less about contradicting people now, but I'm anti abortion, I believe that even though we shouldn't have gone to Iraq pulling out now would be suicide for us in the long run, rather not have other countries have nukes, the economy could be a lot better but it's getting there, have no problem with the new congress yet other than their policy on Iraq and rasing minium wage. I'm pro death penalty, if anyone has any other things I`ll post my stand on those too.

I'm just curious Nemo (I'm not opposing you at all, I'm really jsut curious) as to why you believe the economy could do alot better? I was under the impression that our economy was doing very well, unless I was mistaken.

I too am much like facist, anti-abortion (the thing i hate most is people who say they hate abortion then give certain scenarios when its ok, one case or all cases). Iraq- as well stay the course, Iran- why do they even need nukes....not to mention the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, of which they happen to be a signatory of..) UN- thank god Kofi Annan is on his way out, as awful as a thing as Darfur is....Im really sick of hearing about it....if it was for the UN no one probably would have heard of it, and it would be seen on Genocide Posters all through out my school which throughly bugs me, what are high school students goign to do abotu two tribes i nafrica who hate each other...most likely nothing, its jsut another excuse for a club.

how could you say your sick of hearing about darfur the genocide that goes on there is a huge problem that the world should be doign something about. i think that the US should be focusing a lot more on darfur than iraq sendig troops to aid darfur would be much better than fighting this horrible war in iraq which we should have never enetered

Right now Iraq is basically the same thing as Darfur. To different tribe of people who dislike each other, one has control of government the other is hated, thus wide spread violence erupts in the country. That is a liberal mentality showing, nothing wrong with being liberal, BUT that proves a point people like you when ever there is a tragedy some where you want to help out, but if its our own country that "starts" the conflict its suddenly wrong. If you think war is so terrible what makes you think the U.S. intervening in Darfur wouldn't lead to war?

i should clarify by start, i mean declare war first, much like Iraq. When the U.S. declares war its wrong, but if a conflict erupts in a country we need to send money and troops to help. I sence some hypocricy about.

Oh Is Fusa, who haven't disappointed.

It is odd that you say America should stay out of foreign wars and interventions, like Iraq, yet you want our military to go into the middle of a genocide war. Full of terrorism, full of torture, full of violence. Now, how is it better to go into there and get troops killed when it poses no immediate threat to us, yet are anti-Iraq war when they actually ATTACKED us and have openly THREATENED us.

Ahh... you baffle me. You have to take the good with the bad. " Oh sure, let's help third world countries and interveine there, but terrorism and nuke threats, if we try to defend ourselves, we are imperialists." I swear you just say foolish liberal things, just for the sake of saying foolish liberal things.

You cannot stop the genocide in darfu'ur any more than you can stop sectarian violence in Iraq. Don't talk foolish. Actually, you probably have a better chance in Iraq.

Let me just change the topic a little bit to focus more on the UN. What do you think of Moon, the new Sec. General? No more Darfur with him? Is the UN holden back the US? I believe it is.

Darfur is an important issue. Iraq is a pointless war brought on by our idiot President. we went thinking they had WMD they didnt. we thought wed save their country and it has turned into a hell hole killing US and Iraqis alike. Sadam is gone and the surge is going to do nothing but kill more people. Im pro UN they at least try to help the people that are really in need. like more of Africa but Bush blowing them off has resulted in us spending years in a place that we should even be in. he is following in his fathers footsteps and making our economie crap because of all the money spent on thing war. its like a BILLION a week. wasted money.

agree with you on all off that

Iraq is just as important as Darfur. So therefore, if you say that Darfur is an important issue, than so is Iraq. The people of Iraq are no less important than some African tribe being illed off by another african tribe which happens, I dare say, every day in that continent, unfortunately.

Give me a break. The UN is a corrupt, flaccid organization that does nothing in the places it's needed most. Where was the UN in Bosnia, when NATO did all the work and then allowed UN peacekeepers to jump in after the fact? Where was the UN in Somalia, when warlords made a practice of stealing food shipments and starving their own people? Where was the UN in Rwanda, when genocidal Hutus massacred thousands upon thousands of innocent Tutsis? Where is the UN now in your precious Darfur, where so many people are being killed?

And hey, what about the Oil for Food Programme? How was that helping people in need, hmm? (Unless you consider Kofi Annan's family to be people in need, of course...)

I'm not even going to touch the rest of the ignorance in your post.

You honestly think we could have done better with Kerry? He would've turned this thing into another Vietnam, that's about the last thing we need right now, by the time he had our troops halfway back he'd probably just send them back to Iraq.

President Bush is NOT an idiot. He may be no genius, but if he got to the presidency he can't be an idiot can he? Until YOU are president, Being Liberal Is Great, don't talk about another president's intelligence. I may not agree with 100% of Bush's policies, but I never would comment on his intelectual capabilities.

all right so you had some problems with my argument. UN may not have been there in Bosnia but it is doing more now. there getting into Africa more and more with every passing year. and yes Bush is an idiot he might have made it to president but ask anyone how much influence his dad had on the subject. the way he got into Harvard or where ever was he got a letter from his dad to accept him and the school said ok. he grades were not Harvard material. his dad has been his fall back on many issues. and this is not guessing this is known. he is following his fathers footsteps. and the things in Africa are different its not just one tribe fighting another. what about Uganda where CHILDREN my age and younger, by the way im 16, are being made to fight against their own country. just because some crazy man wants to lead the country in a Christian manner. they have no water and what about poverty. thats not about fighting at all. how many kids do you see in Iraq with pot bellies because they only get one meal a day if that. Bush wanted to fight a war and its been a crap hole since. no WMD, no more Sadam, and the US isnt even doing that much. there are still car bombers, there are still suicide bombers and they are increasing becase the US is there. they dont want them so they kill them. their religion promotes taking their life for your cause and their cause is getting America out. even most of the government wants them out. and like i said more troops means more DEATH!!!!!! does that mean anything we are not helping we are fighting a losing battle and just killing more people. there are some supporters in Iraq but many many more who hate our guts and would like nothing better to see them all dead. and please dont call me ignorant. it may be wrong but correct me and i will, if it makes sense, apologize or something. but please i am not ignorant.

Like what?

I'd see that as an improvement.

I don't care how much it hurts your feelings, that IS ignorant! We have overthrown a totalitarian dictator, built hospitals to help IRAQI children, dropped off food their, and driven out a large part of the terrorist forces that were origianlly there. And you dar say that is nothing!

That is completely false. They may want us to play less of a role, which they should, but people rejoiced after we secured their home towns. NOt even the soldiers mind being there. They would rather secure this area now and make it safe than have to go on another tour of duty down the line, or even have their children go.

Yes, there are deaths, but that's why it is called a WAR. You liberals are all alike. What do you want us to do, hand out flowers, hug a tree, apologize to the terrorists until they surrender? And if some one could check this, but a believe the death toll last I checked was aroun 3,000 for the Americans and 50,000 for the Iraquis. Oh yeah, we are getting are butts kicked in a war we cannot win, right.

the UN is getting into Uganda it was in Rwanda. and right there are two good examples. my problem with the war is that there were other choices and Bush did NOT have to go into war. there was aplan called the Third way that did the same thing WITHOUT killing 50,000 Iraqis and 3,000 Americans. and yes Sadam being gone is a good thing and it is help but it took how long to do it and how many people had to be killed to get there. if this was more planned out he would have been a long time ago and there wouldnt be the problems there are now. and the new president or w/e he is of Iraq came out in a meeting a said that he wanted the US gone ASAP. he wanted them to train his army and then leave. and Baghdad is still no "secured" as is no other place where the US is because wherever they are the rebels follow. and it does not hurt my feeling it shows that you arent seeing the whole thing. because there were other ways to get him out without over taking a country just to get to the leader. and do you know what the probel is with the food being dropped off there is. the GOVERNMENT is taking it and keeping it for themselves so i dont see how that helps anyone except the highest members of the gov't. i have friends that have been there and they are saying that the war now is no better then when it started. one of them was in one of the military hospitals and he had people try to kill him while he was saving their lives from gun shot wounds. and he said they were constantly under mortar fire. things are not improving. and this man has been there three times since it started and he said it is actually getting worse. the media is scewing what is really happeneing to make it look like things are all nice and happy. and everyones huggin trees. its not. its turning into a place where the soliders might have to stay longer and their kids might have to go to because the right action was not taken. and plus look at the surplus now. it extends as we speek.

Surplus of what?

And the media isn't making it look all "good and nice" there. They are the ones playing it off as a horrible and unconstitutional war. I too know people there, including my cousin who is incharge of training a small group of Iraqi soldiers. He says the soldiers themselves like being trained by the best army in the world, and who wouldn't?

and arrogance is a sure fire way to lose a battle. yes we have never been defeated but that leave a "were due" in there. the best army in the world is true but were are way due for a loss. and if i said surplus i meant Surge. sorry.

Being Liberal Is Great, I don't care about your post I am looking at you signature. Freedom means nothing to you? Have you ever been somethere where people have no freedom? Keep your spoiled little mouth shut until you leave this country and realize that there are places ALOT worse than the US. I am so proud to live here and so happy my parents chose to move here (which I could never understand but they wont answer when I asked them why if they hate the US so much they moved here). Your forefathers died for this freedom the least you could do is be grateful. You are disgusting.

You're my hero. :)

Seriously though, our country needs more people like you. I hate when people bash this country, or get their information from rock bands, or anything else. Even though your family immigrated here, you are more American than 90% of the people I know.

More American, no. I have more respect, am more sensible and am more honored to be a part of the United States of America than 90% that you know. People like mr liberal don't realize everything that they take for granted here. They dhould be honored to live here, not sit here and diss it. I know I am.

And I mean he wasn't even dissing the US. He was dissing freedom. What the hell is that? How do you diss freedom and mean it? You have to be REALLY some kind of spoiled, ungrateful little brat to really mean that. And I know it was just a quote, but by using it you meant it. I'll tell you what, liberal. Go to Bahrain and become a citizen there where the government restricts soo much and women have to wear headscarves. THen tell me what freedom means to you.

I know it sounds crazy, but that is why I am for for just one week to take away America's Freedoms. Make the Constitution void and basically create a dictatorship. When people try to go out in certain clothing, they would be jailed. When some one wrote an Anti-American song, they would be fined and jailed. You are right, people take freedom for granted because they have never known confinement. That is why revolutionary America and WWII America were so patriotic, because we were either fighting for freedom or fighting to protect our freedoms (Hitler trying to take over the world!). That is why, although 9/11 showed the hatred and stupidity of people, it brought out the good and patriotism in people we forgot existed. People helped complete strangers for no other reason than that they were both Americans and it was the right thing to do. That is the America most have forgotten and the one I yearn to be a part of.

Don't we all yearn to ba a part of that America. I'm just afraid people like Liberal will never allow it to exist. And while that is an extreme example, patriot, you are right. If you did that for one week, everyone would realize what they were missing. THEN they would fight for it, I bet.

but the question is are we truly free. i think not. wot with all the laws set in place to limit what we do. i do not know what it is to have no freedom but i plan on working in a country that doesnt and i have seen many examples of it. i know thats not as good as actually going there but its all i can do still being in high school. im like 3 or 4 gen Irish and my forefathers fought for nothing they werent here. so dont be saying im dissin my relatives. i know my background and i embrace it. and i dont get my info from "rock bands" even though that was a quote from Megadeths singer it doesnt mean thats my feelings. i just liked how it sounded and it gave me soemthing to think about everytime i saw it. and 9/11 was a good example but then what about Katrina. its what like 2 years later and homes are still destroyed, killings have TRIPLED and the government does NOTHING but listen. Mayor Nagin hid in a hotel after it happened so he wouldnt have to deal with the people. and the national guard was put in to help but then either killed more people or did nothing but watch. so there will always be a counter for a good partiotic act.

Being Liberal is Great: even though I don't agree with some of your methods I understand what your saying when you try to express your beliefs, *sigh* I guess it can be hard when the majority of this forum is mostly conservatives, in spite of this I hope you continue to post, I've said this before and I'll say it again I think it's the diversity of these forums which make it worth posting, and I am sorry that you get assaulted from believing the way you do, most people aren't open enough to see things from every angle, or, in this case, different view points.

Nemo: While it does make it bettter to post here with a split (as you can see by my post wanting to hear liberal opinions) I don't want him to think that we don't have freedoms. It is perfectly ok to have your own opinion, but he is stating something as a fact that I'm sure that even you would say is incorrect. We are the freest nation in the world, and I don't want anybody in this country thinking otherwise. Sure, you may say that it is wrong to want to change people's opinion. But as far as I am concerned I am merely trying to sway him away from being so anti american and being clearly undereducated in the values and freedoms of the American system.

you talk like this country doesn't have any problems while this country has a lot of problems, i'm not saying that im anti-american, im saying that i dont support the people currently running this country and we need new leaders to help fix our countries problems

Well....I did say I didn't agree with some of the things he said lol, I completely upmost and foremost believe that this nations grants rights you could never expect in other countries, and that anyone takes those rights for granted certainly doesn't belong here. I mean come on...if you hate America just leave, (I'm sure that there’s some radical middle eastern country out there that would be proud to except you.) However take note that there is a difference in hating this country and not excepting the actions of this country to be reasonable. I simply feel that some people are getting way to personal about these forums, all that does is deter us from the matter at hand, you don't get anywhere doing that.

Problems it may have. But even you, Fusa, could not possibly say that we are not truly free. Or can you.

What would be your definition of true freedom? I do believe this country offers rights you rarely expect to find in foreign nations however.

no country on earth is truly free

What is your definition of freedom Is Fusa? America, in my opinion IS truly free. Liberal said that we are restricted too much, but i want to know what he thinks we are restricted from...murder,rape,theft...oh yeah,I can't believe that stuff is illegal.

Exactly, just some countries offer more rights than others.

that was my point exactly. we are not truly free. yes it is good to be protected from theft, rape and murder but they say there is freedom of expression and religion but people sue others for religious landmarks that they can ignore if they chose. that makes us not totally free. there is no total freedom. i know it came off as me being anti-american but i am not i just diagree with some of the things that people think are right. and us having total freedom is true. and i said restricted too much but i never specified. if you want me out of the country then i will leave as soon as i get my teaching degree. i am going to Africa to teach under priveledged children who really dont have freedom and are being made to drop out of school because of it. so if you can wait a few years i will leave. but know my opinion we are the most free and i love that but i think we could have more freedom without taking it too far.