Was wondering if maybe i could spark off some debate regarding the new form codex's, such as SM:DA and how they are heavily rumoured to be the "new-style", essentially how do folk feel about them?

...just to be contentious, I'm not a fan!

I think that our hobby prides itself on customisation, and to be perfectly honest i'm not sure that making every character etc. "stock" (i.e. every DA Captain of whatever HAS an Iron Halo) is a great idea...

Is it really a progressive step, to make all armies, especially SM's (long accused of being boring) even more samey?

Thankfully this site and forum is filled with gamers interested in the spirit and feel of the whole WH40K universe, we all pride ourselfs on our unique ideas, and converstions...from a simple weapon swap to a whole themed army.

I just think that this type of gaming could potentially be pushed to the fringes...I sincerly hope not.

Our hobby most definately shouldn't be filled with samey Ultramarine armies, picked straight from a codex, or any other race for that matter.

Personally I think that Codex: CSM was a definate "high-point", endlessly variable, but with a strong bent towards fair gaming and thematics.

What are the forum's views?? Feel free to shot me down!!!!
:D

I think the new format sucks.

From what ive heard they are basically dumbing everything down.

Making it so that four of the Chaos legions are packed right up into the Black Legion. Get stuffed with that! How can they suddenly change the fluff to make it seem like only five legions went traitor (black legion and the four cult legions).

I have a small Night Lord force and there is absolutely no way that i want new players to look at them and say, "how is that a black legion army?" Because thats whats going to happen. All the new players are going to get shafted out of heaps of the original fluff!

Also (more on topic about the codex format) I dont think making things more the same is a good thing at all. Thats what first got me into the hobby the huge differences between armies (even space marines.) now they're ruining it all!

Dont get me wrong im still going to collect warhammer, absolutely, but i can see a distance starting to form between me and the table top game.

When the new C:CSM comes out, if it makes chaos as crap and boring as some of the rumours are saying it will be then i will definately be making my armies off the old list and to hell with the games.

Thats why im half half about the rumoured ork release. Sure new models will be friggen awesome but im affraid the codex might well ruin my beautiful green boyz!

Just my rather irritated 2 cents.

Peace

I've bought the latest DA codex, not because I intend to use, but more of a reference book, and to be honest, it really is bad.

There's a lot of fluff at the beginning and the last quarter of an already thin book is covering the rules and army selection choices.

I've been in and around this stuff for a long time and have seen the rules and background get reduced and watered down to the point of non-existance.

The next release of W40k will involve participants buying a dice, painting it their colour of choice, meeting an opponent and rolling the dice to see who wins. :lol:


If you read the nex DA codex, there's a background section detailing how the primarchs came to be and how they were spread across the galaxy. The DA codex tells that it's "possibly" down to interference from the Chaos powers.

In the original version of this, it is a definate fact that the Chaos powers, although they despise each other, were prepared to ally so that their combined power would be able to take the primarchs.


Anyway, i'm digressing a bit here, but I'm really not a fan of when GW have such a rich background for a universe and decide to ignore/change what has already been written.


:(

Yeah I have to agree with you guys. Any codex that is proof read by a ten year old isn't a great start.
Personally speaking I'd rather they limited heavy weapons to full ten man squads rather than use the combat squad rule and the limitations on wargear is horrible.
You can't even have a simple Bolter or Auspex and every character has an invulnerable save of some sort.
I felt like I couldn't breath the first time I read it. It's a unfortuantely a sign of things to come as Space Marines are dumbed down for Jervis' ten year old son. :(

its a sad state of affairs when they (GW) have to streamline everything into the simple "an idiot could pick up and play" which in itself isnt a bad thing but when its at the cost of a decent game it is <_<

but lets face it GW is a business, and if they can get more kiddies getting their parents to spend buckets of money on new models for their birthdays then im sure their gonna :rolleyes:

Good to hear everyone's thoughts on it...

Especially liked "Space Marines are dumbed down for Jervis' ten year old son."

HAHA

Sad, but true.

What confuses me, is that there's absolutely no need for SM to be stripped down to the bear bones, as they weren't terribly "beardy" in the last edition (well maybe Black Templars a bit...). Strikes me, as that SM and Eldar get stripped bare, other army lists are the opposite, e.g. Tyranids, i mean, you can have anything...literally. Even with WYSIWYG it's crazy the number of options, even at squad level.

Hmm. Weirdness of GW pissing everyone off, and mucking up an iconic army-list (well as iconic as one can get! HAHA ;)) while making some lists totally overpowered...

I know wat you mean i have a large Iron Warriors army and i dont want people to ask the same question

the only reason their doing it to marines is to make them more of an army that actually fallows the codex astartes where squads are supposed to be 5 or ten but the limitation of upgrades on commanders and sergeants is just dumb.

Ok, I think I'm gonna cause a major stir here.

I've played Dark Angels for 15 years and personally love the current codex.

I think it's made them return to the way they were and the way they should be played.

I've always played games with combat squads of 5 marines; no more, no less and it's easily the most flexible composition available.

I like the standard equipment thats been added to units & characters as it fit's more with the fluff.

At the end of the day, just because you can super-equip a character and make then nigh-on unkillable doesn't mean you should, right? Especially if you're playing for the fun of the game and to make an army that's fluffy.

A lot of the problems that sparked off this new direction was the abuse that a number lists got under tournament play. As an example the 4 heavy support IW lists.

Under the new format codexes, it allows any player with an existing army to still field it (albeit with some changes (grr loss of Court of the Young King)) but it also allows other armies to field some more esoteric units that would normally be forgotten coz they can't take it.

Look at Thousand sons - I know very fwew people that played them before as they seemed to have nothing but handicaps. Now, with the forthcoming 'dex, they can still use a variety of other units and even get to play with jump packs :o

Now, I know that the inflexible purists will say things like "They're not true Thousand Sons or {insert army name here}" but what does that matter?

You can still have fun playing games with your army of choice. OK it's slightly different, but change is a good thing (especially for Tzeentch followers :P )

In all, I initially didn't like the Eldar 'dex and was worried about the DA one. Once I had it in my hands, I loved it. I only hope that the new Chaos 'dex will be as good, if not better than the DA one.

Here's looking forward to the next generation of Word Bearers to rampage through Wolverhampton!!

For the Dark Gods :lol:

Okay, pros and cons from me, I just wanna say this:
The idea around the Dark Angel (and BLood Angel) Codex was to bring space marines back to the fact that they are the simplest army to play. Look at "Why Collect a Space Marine Army" in the 'Dex! It even points out that Space Marines are a beginner's army designed to ease new players into 40k and to make sure they don't spend too much on models so they can start playing. And the reason for the "Captain Clones" as they're known in places is too stop those loose ends.
"Oh! Captain Bob costs 129pts! Im now 9pts over the game limit!" Will class your army list as illegal in any tournament. Now, DA units all end in a nice, rounded 0 or 5 meaning that unless you'r really bad at counting, you shouldn't end up over the limit (in theory).

I personally like the new books. They have a lot of background (my personal fav aspect aside from the painting) instead of the 4 pages in the old DA 'Dex, and have large layouts with all the special rules and background for each unit.
And the idea behind combat squads was to try and get the armour closer to the details in Index Astartes. Marine squads only go to war in groups of 5 or 10 as written by Guilliman in the fluff.

And Chaos will look even better. Okay so we have some really scary AP3 bolters on the Thousand Sons, no 9 troops choices for the Word Bearers, only generic daemons but a nice, 100pts greater daemon, so what? If someone came into my local store with a cheesy armour, just refuse to play him. Or, if you don't care, play him anyway and laugh maniacly when you kick the crud out of his cheesy army. Alternatively, if you do end up playing the inevitable 12 year old (10 year olds arent allowed in to play!) then just correct him if he makes mistakes. If hes one who got in through Dawn of War and compains "You cant kill my bloodthirster" or "where's the orbital bombardment option for Space Marine commanders" just sigh and imagine yourself hanging in a world of fools and computer game fanatics.

And orks, well, you can't make orks easier to play! My ass are they gonna have ork combat squads or generic warbosses, its un orky! And Ill make a big fuss and burn things :angry: