Which conference has more legitimite stars?

For the sake of this argument we'll define a legitimite star as a player that a team could build a franchise around.

Look at: stats, clutch performance, marketability, all star appearances, playoff performance... If there are more qualities that you think a legitimate star might have, then justify them in your response.
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Which side has more stars? I dont care if I'm from the East, ITS THE WEST!

You want to talk about Stats...Kevin Garnett...basketballreference has a stat called the versitility index...it combines points/rebounds/assists and throws out a rating based on whose stats are the best COMBINED using those categories...KG's been atop that list for two years in a row...and its going to be three...The Mans statistics are incredible...fantasy basketball god...The West is no push-over after the big ticket either, it has 12 of the 20 point scorers, a majority...it has 5 of the 9 10-rebound players, a majority...and lets check out a ranking that combines just about all the stats...efficiency...KG's on the top of that list (for the third year in a row), and the West owns 7 of those top 10 spots, A MAJORITY...

Clutch Performance huh? KOBE, KOBE, KOBE...nobody in today's game of basketball is more clutch than Kobe Bryant...theres been threads on this site, and the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of posters selected Bryant as their man...he's shown time and time again he's the guy to go to in pressure situations...Then You have Mr. 13 points in under 40 seconds...Tracy McGrady, whose performance earlier on in the season is matched by NO ONE so far in terms of 'clutch'...Tim Duncan has hit game winners within the past couple weeks, and is also a good guy to give it to...how about Nowitzki? Any time he's open it just drops...its amazing...or how about not even clutch shooting...but clutch rebounding, or a clutch pass...KG gets those pressure rebounds, and Nobody is better at making something happen late in (or any time in) ballgames this season than Steve Nash...has the assist lead by a BIG Margin at 11.5 a night...

On the other side of the spectrum, what does the east have that can match that? sure, Paul Pierce is a good clutch player, but at the level of Kobe? I dont think so...LeBron has yet to become a clutch basketball player...Shaq can't hit half his free throws, which takes him out of the game often times late...the East's stars do not match up in this department either...

Marketability? Let me tell you something, LeBron James...you may be saving basketball...but I'd put some money on the fact that Yao Ming makes the NBA more money...He's the #1 all-star vote reciever, which proves his popularity, whether center is a weak position or not...those votes are coming from all over the world...whats LeBron done for NBA viewing in China, the most heavily populated country...not near as Much as Ming...aside from Yao, Tmac, Duncan, and KG appear on addidas commercials...

All-Star appearences huh...Kevin Garnett, 8...Tim Duncan, 7...Kobe Bryant, 7...Tracy McGrady, 5...Ray Allen, 5...Dirk Nowitzki, 4...Yao Ming, 3 in 3 years...

The East has Shaq with 12, AI with 6, VC with 5...Kidd with 7 (though he failed to make the team this season)...Pierce has 4...Webber with 4...among others...the East probably has more all-star appearences with the shift of Webber, Shaq, and Steve Francis...but thats hardly a deciding factor with such a slight edge...

NOW THAT GRAND DADDY OF THEM ALL...PLAYOFF PERFORMANCE...

Since MJ left the Eastern Conference, the East has combined for ahhh...hmmm, gotta go into the books for this one....1 CHAMPIONSHIP...1 out of 6...thats under 17% of the past 6 seasons...thats horendous...

Nash or Duncan is going to make that 1 of 7 this season, you can quote me...

The Reasons for that...Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Shaquille O'Neal....last time I looked, 2 of those 3 were from the west...

And looking at the Champion Pistons from a year ago, how many of those guys were "legit stars"

Rasheed was and is no longer a "star"...Billups and Rip are good players, but they not yet at "star" level...I guess you could say Big Ben...but the fact is that was a title won AS A TEAM...not with individual stars...team effort and great coaching won that...

I know Mafia is going to point me in the direction of the All-Star scoreboard...and then, I will point him in the direction of Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett sitting the ENTIRE FOURTH QUARTER...

One more thing before I wrap this up...Steve Nash is getting just about all the MVP talk for his INCREDIBLE performance with the Suns this season...yep, He plays for the west...in addition, last night Sir Charles Barkeley said, "Duncan, I mean, he's a guy you could hand it to every year like jordan", followed by a nodding Kenny "the Jet" Smith...

The East has some young guys, Wade and LeBron...and if you were asking this question in 3 years, my answer would most likely be different...but right now is not 3 years from now...and the West is CLEARLY more dominant...

Nash, Duncan, KG, Kobe, Tracy, Yao, Ray Ray, Dirk, Amare, Elton brand (everyone forgets)

OR

Shaq, LeBron, AI, Pierce, Wade, Vince "i'll try when I want to" Carter, and Stephon "its okay my team loses, I scored 30" Marbury

....as if you REALLY NEEDED an explanation...

Why do stars matter? All you need is legitamite role players, and a star. You don't need too much ego for one team. And if you want to talk about the East's Titles after the Bulls, who has won them? The Lakers? With Shaq in his prime, one of the most skilled guards in the game, and a very good coach. The East was, and has been in a rebuilding stage. This always happens, power switches from one conference to the other over time.

For now, the West- but soon, the East will step up to bat.

I think West has the East's number but the gap is rapidly shrinking. Shaq in the East, Lebron rising and Wade rising as well is really going to help balance the two conferences.

Don't forget a young Bosh, either, or Richard Jefferson.

Bosh yes, Jefferson no.

lets keep this going by making an argument for some second tier players (ie: Rip Hamilton, Michael Redd, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom) as legitimite stars.

Notice that the question did not say "all stars" or "superstars" per se, but a player that a team could build a franchise around.

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Superstars, Regular stars...or "legitimate" stars...it makes no difference...the west has more...

You talk guys like Manu Ginobili...how sick is this guy...pretty soon he's going to belong in my first post...the guy is an extremely good scorer, made his first all-star appearence (AND RIGHTFULLY SO), and I forgot all about him...that tells you how underrated the guy is...he's also a very good defensive player

He's 12th in the league in steals...he gets 16/4/4 in 30 minutes...and can go off for 20 + easily if the Spurs needed him to...

Then you have Pau Gasol...the leader of the Grizzlies...he's a 20/10 threat and gets you a guarenteed block and a half blocks a night...they dont make these guys on trees...he'd be 20th on the efficiency list had he been healthy even to qualify for the list...

Manu, Pau, how about Odom? The guy is as versitile as they come (barring a guy named Kevin, also from the west)...Odom is virtually unguarable...he's got nice range on his shot, or if you jump out on him he'll penatrate and use that left hand for easy lay ups...he averages a double double a night...points and rebounds...15 and 10...only Dirk, Shaq, Duncan, KG, and Marion (who i'll get to) can say the same...thats company where I come from...

Speaking of hard to guard...hey that rhymed...Rashard LEWIS...making the all-star appearence this year...rightfully so...20 points, 5 boards, he shoots 46% from the 3 position...40% from down town...both of those clips better than "super-star" 3 Tracy McGrady...He's also a huge reason the Sonics are having a FANTASTIC YEAR

Now that Matrix I was talking about...Shawn Marion...you wanna talk about underrated? Look no further...19 and 11...he's 6'7" playing the four in the west, and playing it well...he's 6th in efficiencey...he's 3rd in steals, he's got the points and rebounds...yet, WHERE THE HELL IS THE LOVE...nobody talks about this guy, unless they are talking about why he gets no love...its true...nobody his size fills up the stat sheet like he does...I'm sure he likes playing with Nash...but this guy did it without Nash...

How about Mike Bibby? The guys numbers are overlooked...he's a 20 point scorer with 6 and a half dimes and 4 and a half boards a game...clutch? anyone...check out sportscenter over the past 8 days...theres your clutch...his team loses their "star" and he leads them to 3-1 without him (Brad Miller's out at the moment too)

Hey...BRAD MILLER...15 and 9...one of the best passing centers in the NBA, hard nose player, very efficient, more assists than Shaq, whose widely regarded as the best passing big man in the game...what about Miller? He's good too...should have been an all-star, but what are you gonna do? Most likely just use him in a debate for legitimate conference stars, i guess...

One more, some of you probably got hot dates tonight, or better things to do...on that note, Zach Randolph...19 and 9...not talked about...he's got 22 double doubles, thats 16th in the league...man can post up with the best of them...

If you're not full already...check out the dollar menu...Boozer, Maggette, Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Carmelo Anthony, and a cat named Kenyon

Stars....you want 'em...go west...and I'm not talking about Hollywood...

PEACE

Marion is actually one of my favorite players, I love the guy.

I wouldn't bring in ANY players on the "Dollar Menu" in this discussion other than B-Diddy if we're talking about building a franchise around someone.

From 2001-2004, which top 5 draft pick (excluding Jay Williams) has been the biggest bust?

Look at: performance, playing time, role on team (bench player/ starter), expectations coming into the league, coaching staff, veteran mentors, etc.
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I'm gonna have to go with Kwame Brown on this one


First off, the comparison to Garnett.

Take a look at who he was being compared to. Because of his height and age being similar to Kevin Garnett's, everybody thought he was the second coming of KG. Umm, not quite. Kevin Garnett has had court vision since he came into his league, Kwame's career high in asists per game is 1.5. Garnett has had good shot blocking numbers since his rookie season. Kwame had one season in which he averaged 1 block per game, every other has been below 1. The only similarity between Kwame and Garnett is that they both had their best season in their third year in the NBA. Problem is Kwame's third season was a 10.9, 7.4 rebound effort while Garnett had a 18.5 pt, 9.6 rebound campaign. Kwame has no jumpshot whatsoever while KG can step out to about 20 ft.

Secondly, his attitude is terrible....

Think about when he first came into the league, he couldn't take the pressure of MJ's criticism. Also, why is that he takes longer this season to recover from injuries than other players normally would? I think it's an ego issue, because in games in which Kwame missed, the Wizards are a solid 22-14, while games in which he played they are only 12-13. Why is that they are actually better than the "cornerstone of the franchise"? Also, he hasn't shown the work ethic necessary to be a solid NBA player. He has been suspended numerous times by the time, and this season, he has already been quoted as saying that he is looking forward to next season. He is making excuses about his injuries, but in reality, he's had ample time to recuperate, but he just doesn't want to be on the court.

Finally.....
Just look at the rest of the 2001 draft class. You got really good guys who were picked after Kwame who are looking at very promising careers while Kwame's careers is very cloudy. Take a look at some these names:Tony Parker, Jamaal Tinsley, Sam Dalembert, Zach Randolph, Troy Murphy, my man Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Jason Richardson, Pau Gasol, etc etc. Add to that list a couple of dudes in Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler who are very good in their own ways. When you think that out of this very strong draft class, that Kwame Brown was the top choice just seems like a very foolish pick.

In conclusion......
As you can tell, there are tons of substantial information to back my statement about Kwame Brown. I have a hard time believing that there could be any other top 5 pick in the past few years to even be considered as much of a bust as Kwame


(Just for you ACE!) hpy. :P :lol:

LOL

haha all of you are gonna be mad confused

I think Kwame deserves more respect than he gets. The man was torn apart by Michael Jordan. I mean he was called a "flaming faggot" on national television by the man who is the undisputed best basketball player of all-time. That will destroy a man's confidence. He will be traded after this season though and I expect him to be a good player on whatever team he goes to. Not nearlly KG-like but still good.

He doesn't need to be traded, he is a free agent.

Oh, my bad.

Kobe is not clutch. I've watched him too many times this year to know that. Chauncey Billups..now that's clutch...along with uhhh...I'm going to need some time on this one.

And how long is that supposed to last? Jordan is long gone. He should have matured and contributed a long time ago

Ben Gordon, Vince Carter (at times), Tracy McGrady.

Great article star... you really revealed the truth on that one...