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Title: DnD 4.0 Announced


Charamei - August 17, 2007 06:34 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
Concepts for 4th Edition gameplay were tested in the new Star Wars RPG ...
At this point, I stopped reading in horror.

Presumably at some point in the next eight months we'll get the 3.5 Feat Compendium... right?

*hopes*

nerulean - August 17, 2007 12:44 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Charamei @ Aug 17 2007, 06:34 AM)
QUOTE
Concepts for 4th Edition gameplay were tested in the new Star Wars RPG ...
At this point, I stopped reading in horror.

Don't be too horrified, apparently the new saga edition plays quite well. It abandons very specific classes and goes with general ones and ability trees rather than class skills, so you can customise characters more. The other book they've apparently tested some stuff out in lets you use stuff on a per encounter basis rather than the per day stuff 3.5 uses.

scotskevin - August 17, 2007 12:56 PM (GMT)
If that's correct, it would remove one of the main criticisms leveled at D&D, that it encourages the creation of stereotypical characters.

My main initial concern is this new online content. How vital will it be, and how much will it cost ?

Ajwz - August 17, 2007 01:33 PM (GMT)
Ok, so it did encourage the creation of stereotypical characters, but universe and fantasy elements aside (and I've always thought they've managed that pretty well.) I hope this isn't just going to be D&D version 3.75. There are some annoying problems with the currently, particulary regarding the skill system.
Plus, prestige classes encourage silliness.

I note that hasbro managed to augument this important announcement with a rather spectacular server failure on the main website.

Azathoth - August 17, 2007 03:05 PM (GMT)
Here is what wizards has to say about it

Not sure how they will make it simpler, almost everything in 3.5 is roll a d20, add something and try to beat a number. I think the main problem going from 3.0 to 3.5 was it gave the impression they were releasing it just to make money. I dont think this will change that view.

D&D has lots of things which identify it, like the spell system, the 6 stats e.t.c. Stereotypical characters is a part of that. It wouldn't be D&D if the paladin was just someone who took a mix of fighting & holy abilities.

nerulean - August 18, 2007 03:46 PM (GMT)
Having spent some time on youtube, the general impression I'm getting is a positive one: they've noticed which bits are bad and are trying to change them. If they do it well, 4 could be a rather good game.

They want to make all the levels playable from 1 through to 30 rather than just having a bit in the middle which they somewhat irritatingly call a 'sweet spot' through the presentation. If they can pull that off, I'll be highly impressed.

They talk a lot about simplifying the rules, which seems to be streamlining more than changing the essential mechanic of 'roll d20, add something, beat a number' -- basically, they want more checks to boil down to just that, as opposed to 'attack of opportunity, find this number on your character sheet that you've never used before, add something else that may or may not be relevant, roll d20, get the other guy to do the same, look up what happens when you get the same result...' Again, if they're successful in that, it would be great.

A lot of things seem to be moving towards an encounter-based rather than day-based adventure structure, so you might be able to recharge spells between encounters like the Book of Nine Swords lets you recharge manoeuvres.

Giving options to characters and making the choices they make stay relevant through the levels seems to be a watchword too. Some vague articles on the main site talk about having race choices give abilities at levels other than 1st, so being a dwarf is more than just the bonuses you start with and quickly ignore, and a fighter's choice of weapon becomes more than a compromise between threat range and crit multiplier.

I've got to say, though, it doesn't sound massively different from 3.5. They're saying they're not going to be bringing out a character conversion thing to update 3rd ed. characters, so they clearly think it's a very different thing, but whether or not that's the case remains to be seen. A tagline they're using is 'evolutionary, not revolutionary', which could mean 'we're not changing a lot', but could also mean 'don't panic those of you who're stuck in your ways, it'll still have elves and dragons and stuff'.

Incidentally, here's the teaser video for 4th ed. No, I don't know why they used a French guy, either.

Azathoth - December 13, 2007 04:49 PM (GMT)
http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e

Confirmed races for 4th ed are: Humans, Dwaves, Elves, Halflings, Eladrins, Tieflings, and Dragonborn.

not too sure about Dragonborn, or Tieflings without Assimar for that matter.

Overmind - December 13, 2007 06:53 PM (GMT)
Not sure who is in charge of advertising, but these need an overhaul to be truly grabbing, however they are informative


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3J8t2-RVs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWZ2WdeTo1M&feature=related

scotskevin - December 14, 2007 10:48 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Overmind @ Dec 13 2007, 07:53 PM)
Not sure who is in charge of advertising, but these need an overhaul to be truly grabbing, however they are informative


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3J8t2-RVs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWZ2WdeTo1M&feature=related

I'd guess those "viseos " are actually powerpoint presentations.

Ajwz - December 15, 2007 02:45 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
"Then another two hours in the booth, mostly evangelizing about Fourth Edition again. I came to the realization that perhaps the most significant change in 4e is the one that's going to be the least visible: the math underlying the system. But it's hugely important!

The reason there's a "sweet spot" in the current game is that it's the approximate range of levels where, purely by coincidence, the math of the system actually works. In those levels, PCs don't drop after one hit, and they don't take a dozen hits to wear down. In those levels, characters miss monsters occasionally, but less than half the time, and monsters miss characters only slightly more often. It's pure chance, really, but it means the game is fun. Outside of those levels, the math doesn't work that way, and the game stops being fun.

In Fourth Edition, we've totally revamped the math behind the system, and that's a big part of the way that we've extended the sweet spot across the whole level range. When PCs fight monsters of their level, they'll find that the math of the system is more or less the same at level 30 as it is at level 1. There will always be variation with different PCs and different monsters, but that variation won't be so great that monsters are either too deadly or too weak.

Of course, there's more to the sweet spot problem than just the math. The proliferation of save-or-die effects and adventure-breaking effects like etherealness and scrying also makes high-level adventuring more difficult to pull off, and we've addressed those issues as well.

Fundamentally, this has meant we've had to abandon some things that might have seemed like sacred cows—fireball spells don't do 1d6/level any more, for example—but it's all in the interest of a far superior play experience."


Sounds good to me.

However, I can't say I'm particularly keen on the whole dragon god/mythology thingumie, which has always kind of sucked, so I think making them part of the main pantheon is just designed to annoy me.

nerulean - December 21, 2007 12:05 AM (GMT)
While I am enthusiastic and optimistic about 4th ed, I really have to ask, wtf, Wizards?

(Warning, this link may hijack your firefox and stop you looking at other tabs while the horror ensues.)

Ajwz - December 21, 2007 01:01 AM (GMT)
So, to summarise what we have learned from this:
Tieflings are in because they are popular, and they help fill the "pictures of scantily clad women in the PHB" quota.
Gnomes are out because they are unpopular, and nobody wants to see them naked.

Speculation: Weebl becomes a character template in the monster manual.




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